Church Office Building HF beams

[KE4JSX]

Hi.  My name is Dan and I am from Virginia (between Staunton and Charlottesville).  I've been a ham since 1994.  My main focus was/is Emergency Preparedness/communication.  I am my home stakes Emer Prep resource as well as EmmComm and am trying to set up intra stake communications.  My HT comp is working on getting his Eagle project approved: making and installing 2m J pole antennas in our buildings as well as an invierted V in the stake center.  My hope is to have a spot in each building away from noise that has a coax line (and possibly a tuner for the HF ant) so any ham can bring in his rig(s) along with a car battery and plug in.We are in SLC at the moment - came in for our first "live" General Conference - what an amazing experience!!  While walking near Temple Square, I took some pictures of the roof of the Church Office Building.  Once I got the angle right, I saw two HF beams along with an assortment of other antennas.  My question is:  who has access to the station?  Can visits be arranged?  Is there a sked of nets run from there, and if so, when and where?  Is there a contact person?  Any other info would be appreciated.  Thanks and glad I found this group.  73Dan - KE4JSX in Virginia[ edited by WB7SGL to add photos, courtesy Dan KE4JSX ][img]http://www.ldshams.com/images/ke4jsx/P1000632sm.JPG[/img][img]http://www.ldshams.com/images/ke4jsx/P1000633sm.JPG[/img][img]http://www.ldshams.com/images/ke4jsx/P1000634sm.JPG[/img]

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[wb7sgl]

Hello Dan and Welcome to LDS Hams!What a great find! And what a great weekend to visit! (I'm sure it was all coincidence, you being in SLC from VA, and on the same weekend as General Conference! What a stroke of luck! (just kidding) ... Glad you could make it! One day I will too!)I don't know much about the work they're doing. I haven't heard of anyone who does know. Except the folks here at the Denver Bishops Storehouse, They communicate with SLC via HF. But I don't know any of the details at all. I will pass along a message to someone I know of and see if they have information they can share. I will post back anything I find out on this thread.

[KI6DKC]

Any way you can post some pics of the antennas?  Also any plans you have for the J-Poles your future eagle scout is attaching and pics?  I'm always interested in what others are doing for ward communications equipment.

[KE4JSX]

Once we get his project approved (just warning that it could take some time…), I'll be happy to send along some fotos to be posted as we need to take them for the project anyway.  The plans we're using for the J-pole are sufficiently detailed that a non-ham could follow them.  We'll use a G5RV inverted V for the stake center.My goal is to promote ham radio across the stake.  My ward has 4 ham operators in it.  I know of one or two in most of the other wards/branch.  (Our stake covers 4-5 counties.)  If we divide the the ward into ham radio districts, we can use FRS radios and/or "runners" to report to the ham operator in his district should the phone lines fail.  Then the 4 operators can collect the information so the Bishop can tell the stake how his unit is doing.  Ideally, I'd like to double the number of operators in our ward and get more than a few in each of the others.  I'll let you know how that goes. 73Dan - KE4JSX in Virginia

[k7wcb]

Our region has a very active program for emergency communications. We have 2 weekly nets. The first is for wards and branches in our stake. The second is for stakes in the region. The next 2 posts are the preambles we use. Our region worked with the local ham clubs to offer tech and general classes at the buildings, then did mass testing at the end of the classes. It benefited both groups, as it bolstered our areas lds hams for e-comm and also interested many into joining the local club. The region hs done 2 class/testing sessions with well over 100 new hams added to the area.

[k7wcb]

Spokane Regional LDS ERC NET PreambleQST, QST, QST. This is [ name & call ], Net Control Station, calling the Spokane WestStake ERC Net. This net meets weekly at 1900 hours local time on 146.480 simplex.Emergency traffic may break in at anytime during this net.(Unkey; Pause only momentarily)This is a directed net to Ward ERC specialists and members. Visitors are asked tostand-by and are invited to check-in after member roll-call. The purpose of this net isto allow members to test their equipment, check propagation, and to pass information.All stations are asked to stay on frequency until the net is over. If you need to checkout early, please advise net control.(Unkey; Pause only momentarily)At this time, are there any stations with traffic or announcements for the net?(Unkey; Pause only momentarily)This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station. Roll call will proceed as follows. First,Ward ERC Specialists will be called, then I will call for ward members. And last visitorswill be invited to check-in. (Pause but don’t unkey.) When checking-in, please giveyour name, call-sign and ward. (Pause but don’t unkey.) Now calling for the:Cheney 1st ERC specialistCheney 2nd ERC specialistDavenport ERC specialistMedical Lake ERC specialistRitzville ERC specialistSpokane 2nd ERC specialistWest Plains ERC specialistWest Terrace ERC specialist(After calling each specialist, read back the list of check-ins.)This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station. I will now proceed with visitor check-ins.When checking-in please, give your name, call-sign, and location. (Pause but don’tunkey.) Now calling for visitor stations:Alpha through LimaMike through Zulu(After calling each individual group, pause until check-ins for that group cease. Readback the list of check-ins. Make sure you repeat the call of that group until you haveexhausted check-ins for that group, then move on.)This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station. Now calling for any late, missed, or visitorsto the net. Please come now.(Unkey; Welcome anyone; see if visitors will participate in Round Robin)This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station. All stations please stand-by while I total thenumber of check-ins for this week.Report numbers.The regional ERC Net is follows this net at 1930 on the KABRA network.I will now return this frequency to normal operation.

[k7wcb]

  Spokane Regional LDS ERC NET PreambleQST, QST, QST.  This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station, calling the Spokane Regional LDS ERC Net.  This net meets weekly at 1930 hours local time on the KBARA repeater system.  Emergency traffic may break in at anytime during this net. (Unkey; Pause only momentarily)This is a directed net to Stake ERC specialists and members.  Visitors are asked to stand-by and are invited to check-in after member roll-call.  The purpose of this net is to allow members to test their equipment, check propagation, and to pass information.  All stations are asked to stay on frequency until the net is over.  If you need to check out early, please advise net control. (Unkey; Pause only momentarily)At this time, are there any stations with traffic or announcements for the net? (Unkey; Pause only momentarily)This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station.  Roll call will proceed as follows.  First, Stake ERC Specialists will be called.  Next member stations will be called.  And last visitors will be invited to check-in.  (Pause but don’t unkey.)  I will now begin roll call for Stake ERC Specialists.  When checking-in, please give your name, call-sign, and report the number of wards and the number members that have checked into your stake ERC net.  If you are available to act as a liaison station to the Hermiston ERC HF net after this net, please inform net control.  (Pause but don’t unkey.) Now calling for the:• Colville Stake ERC specialist• Coeur d'Alene Stake ERC specialist• Hayden Stake ERC specialist• Lewiston Stake ERC specialist• Moscow and Moscow University Stake ERC specialist• Standpoint Stake ERC specialist• Spokane Stake ERC specialist• Spokane East Stake ERC specialist• Spokane North Stake ERC specialist• Spokane Valley Stake ERC specialist• Spokane West Stake ERC specialist(After calling each specialist, read back the list of check-ins.)  This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station.  I will now begin roll-call for member stations ordered alphabetically by stake.  When checking in, please give your name and call-sign.  If you are available to act as a liaison station to the Hermiston ERC HF net, please inform net control.  (Pause but don’t unkey.) Now calling for:• Colville Stake• Coeur d'Alene Stake• Hayden Stake• Lewiston Stake  • Moscow and Moscow University Stake• Standpoint Stake• Spokane Stake• Spokane East Stake• Spokane North Stake• Spokane Valley Stake• Spokane West Stake(After calling each individual group, pause until check-ins for that group cease.  Read back the list of check-ins.  Make sure you repeat the call of that group until you have exhausted check-ins for that group, then move on.)  This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station.  I will now proceed with visitor check-ins.  When checking-in please, give your name, call-sign, and location.  (Pause but don’t unkey.) Now calling for visitor stations:• Alpha through Lima• Mike through Zulu(After calling each individual group, pause until check-ins for that group cease.  Read back the list of check-ins.  Make sure you repeat the call of that group until you have exhausted check-ins for that group, then move on.)  This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station.  Now calling for any late, missed, or visitors to the net.  Please come now.(Unkey; Welcome anyone; see if visitors will participate in Round Robin)This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station.  I will now ask last weeks Hermiston ERC net liaison stations if they have anything to report from the Hermiston ERC net.    Primary liaison station ___________________________________ do you have anything to report?    Back-up liaison station ___________________________________ do you have anything to report? (Record any reports from the Hermiston ERC net.  If there are any remote stake reports, add them to the total check-ins for this week.)This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station.  All stations please stand-by while I total the number of check-ins for this week.  (In the section below, total the number of Stake ERC specialists checking-in, total the number of ward check-ins reported by the ERC specialists, and total the number of member check-ins as reported by the ERC specialists.)(Select a primary and secondary liaison station from those who indicated that they could act as a liaison station.)This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station.  I will now select two liaison stations for this week. ___________________________ could you act as the primary liaison station to the Hermiston ERC net?  (Wait for confirmation from the liaison station.)  ___________________________could you act as the back-up liaison station to the Hermiston ERC net?  (Wait for confirmation from the liaison station.)  Liaison stations please stand-by to copy the following information to report for the Hermiston ERC HF net.  (Unkey; Pause only momentarily)  ______ stake ERC specialists checked-in.  (Total the number of stake ERC specialists that checked-in. Moscow counts as two stakes)______ wards checked-in. (Total the number of ward check-ins reported by the ERC specialists.)______ members checked-in.  (Total the number of member check-ins as reported by the ERC specialists.)Liaison stations please report this information to the Hermiston ERC HF net this evening at 8:15 PM local time.  If neither liaison station is able to make contact with the 8:15 PM Hermiston net, please hold this report and pass it to the Hermiston ERC net at 8:00 AM local time next Saturday.Primary liaison station do you copy?  (Wait for confirmation from the liaison station.)Back-up liaison station do you copy?  (Wait for confirmation from the liaison station.)  This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station.  Is there anything more for the net this evening?We wish to thank those who participated in the net this evening, as well as the repeater owners and KBARA members for allowing us to use this repeater, and those hams that stood by while the net was in progress. (Unkey; Pause only momentarily)This is ( name & call ), Net Control Station, closing the Spokane Regional LDS ERC Net.  This repeater is now returned to normal amateur use.

[W7CFC]

I met the guy that runs the Church Com center.  He does give tours, but I haven't been able to do it yet.

[Anonymous]

I heard that the elevators cause problems with this location (as in resonant structures) .  There is also a station aat the distribution center (old Deseret Book)

[KJ4GDJ]

Are you having any problems getting the Stake Facilities Coordinator to agree with putting antennas on the buildings?  Our Stake Fac. Coord.  does not seem to be in favor of it.  Any suggestions?

[W0CEH]

There is a subpage on the providentliving.org website at http://providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,8040-1-4413-1,00.html that indicates that wards or stakes should not purchase equipment or accept donated equipment for their use.  Although not explicitly stated, and I know of a great many units where equipment is in place in meetinghouses, the implication, to me, is that there should not be a permanent set up of radio equipment in our buildings.  I understand that it is okay to bring one's personal equipment to a building for temporary use in the event of an emergency, but otherwise it should be returned home after the event is closed down.  Frankly, given the possibility that travel could be difficult if not impossible in an emergency situation, my suggestion is that amateur radio operators (AROs), acting in concert with PH leaders, try to get together at one or the other's homes or, better still, that the ARO and the PH leader have some means of communicating (for instance, assuming the phones are out, the bishop/stake president is also licensed or at least has a CB radio as does the ARO and they communicate that way).

[KJ4GDJ]

Ok, so how does this coincide with the the young man working with his Eagle Project building and installing 2m J-poles on their ward and Stake buildings?Robert CollesterCrossville, TN

[KC4RZW]

Equipment in buildings has historically been of virtually no benefit in times of emergency. First off you should know how to use your own rig, a common rig would present a learning curve that is not needed in times of emergency, the other problem is that with no one in charge of the equipment it tends to get damaged so when you need to use it there is a need to make repairs first. Hams should own their own equipment that they know how to use and that they take care of. We had a longwire antenna hidden in the attic of a building in our stake for the longest time, last time the FM group updated the building they took the feedline out so there is no good way to add permanent ham radio equipment to church buildings. What we do for field day is throw a G5RV up in the tree outside the primary room and go on the air, works just fine.

[AF6KF]

I also know of equipment having been removed by the FM group. We had some over a decade ago. It was specifically removed and was not to be re-installed.I agree that a temporary antenna can be put up most anywhere. Whether it's a wire antenna, or a J-Pole stuck on top of any pole or pipe. Besides, the meeting house may not be accessible or centrally located for a given unit. There is also the problem of multiple unit buildings, who controls the communication?

[KF7EEC]

It is a little surprising how little information the Church has on emergency communications.  In Vegas, the Church has a GMRS repeater on top of the Bishop Store House.  They have a twice weekly GMRS net.  Some Church members own a Ham repeater.  They also have a twice weekly ham net.

[WA7ZBO]

To get back to the original thread, yes those are ham beams. I was one of the fellows that worked on that project and I can tell you that when you are on the top of the tower, the roof of the building looks mighty small. Add to that the 28 floors to the ground below and it takes your breath away. The problem with the elevators is they are DC motors with brushes and can create a lot of QRM on some bands. They are just feet away from the radios in the next room. That's one of the reasons we built a multi position HF station at the Bishops' Central Storehouse several miles away. If you ever get out this way, you can see the antennas next to I-215 just north of the Distribution Center.Access to the station of coarse is restricted. There is no one elevator to the top. You have to exit the main elevator then go through security to access the final elevator.Most of the original COB operators are gone now. Some passed away while others like Allen Packer have greater duties as General Authorities.

[Author]

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